Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's On Killing is a phenominal work. It serves to blatantly scrutinize one of our society's biggest blind spots and social taboos: killing. Everything our society thinks it knows about wartime combat is fundamentally flawed; our conception of the righteous (or less so) soldier wading through battle without thought of the lives he takes is a lie. One of the most interesting points is the exploration of firing rates in historical wars and man's natural reluctance to kill, which apparently supercedes the urge of self-preservation or societal pressures. Those that enjoyed the book Ishmael may find a similar vein in this work (in the way that it explores facets of civilization that we turn a blind eye to conciously or unconciously), which strives to explain information vital to the survival of our society as well as the psychological well-being of our soldiers, however uncomfortable that subject may be. An all around fascinating book that "blew my mind". I reccomend this book for anyone with even a passing interest in psychology or combat, and it is definately a MUST READ for anyone working in the field of Veteran's Affairs.

I liked the book. I aspired to be come a marine back in the early 80's after finishing college. I talked with some former viet-nam vets who convinced me that graduate school was a better option. I followed their advice based on the stories they told me...this book is a very good testimony of some of their experiences. now at 49 I wish I had become a marine anyway when I had the chance. I personally was'nt aware of the fact that many soldiers on both sides never used their weapons and I side with the author's view point on peace before war but we must always be prepared to defend the constitution of the United States if necessary. never the less the book is a very good study of the human psyche and of the limits of human endurance....

This book, as many have stated, is great for understanding the psychology of someone returning from the battlefield. But for those who have yet to enter the battlefield, or will shortly find themselves returning, I suggest they read On Combat. That book deals much more with the subject of the physiology and psychology of the act of combat itself and how to prepare for it, rather than how to recognize and deal with it after the fact.

This is a very good book but pales in comparison to Col. Grossman's second book on combat. This book has a lot of data a is a little dry reading. However, the data is excellent and this book contains great information.

A bit of slow read but does get interesting every few pages. It is very easy to take the factors in this book and apply them to the business world - why do people get stressed out and burned out at work.

It is interesting book for those who have illusions concerning any war. The book confirmed the basic thought that the fright to kill a person is more important than the fright to be killed. The nature programmed us to avoid killing a human being! Every war does not cost every life! Certainly, there is CONSCIENCE! The conscience torment to kill innocent children and women, fathers of mothers of somebody!

This is a very incite-full read and should be read before on combat. Very deep subject content and makes very good points about how our society is changing and not in a good way.

This book should be required reading for all Company Commanders, and a copy should be given to every soldier who serves in combat, whether or not they kill another.

This book, if widely distributed in our armed forces, would be instrumental to reducing the social stigma associated with PTSD and provide the soldiers in the field and their officers and NCO's a critical tool for assessing and triage for combat related mental illness.

This is a good look at what it takes to kill another human, and what it means, psychologically, to the one doing the killing. This is worth reading. Some of the content will surprise you.

I regularly teach a college-level course called "Introduction to Peace & Justice Studies." On the very first day of class, I typically ask students if they think that humans are innately aggressive--that is, as the classic tag has it, "man is wolf to man." Each semester, the vast majority of students respond affirmatively. Violence is so much a part of our culture that they just take it for granted that humans are natural born killers.

That's why Dave Grossman's book is such an eye-opener for them (and why I use it as a text over and over). Here's a career military guy--a Ranger, no less--who argues empirically that in fact humans seen to have so strong a natural aversion to killing fellow humans that the military has to struggle mightily to overcome that aversion in its recruits. Since WWII, with the help of operant conditioning techniques, basic training has improved the readiness of recruits to kill. But the aversion nonetheless remains, and exacts a heavy psychological cost: PDST, alcohol and drug abuse, suicide, etc. Moreover, continues Grossman, our entire media-driven culture is increasingly conditioned to accept killing as one of life's inevitabilities, and so the psychological fallout from this attitude permeates civilian as well as military life.

This is an extraordinarily powerful thesis, and it's been affirmed by dozens of other psychologists. What's astounding is that neither the military or civilian sectors seem to have taken it seriously. Counseling for soldiers is minimal, and PDST is a growing problem for Iraq War veterans. Middle and high school students continue to be desensitized by escalating levels of media-driven displays of violence, with little concern on the part of regulatory commissions for the psychological consequences.

Grossman's book argues that none of this has to be. Highly recommended.

Outstanding book by a very informed author. Lots of anecdotal descriptions. Should be read by everyone who has a friend or relative in law enforcement, the military, firemen, vetrans, familys of vetrans or any citizen with the lawful right to carry a gun. A must read for anyone that might have to defend thereself or others from deadly assult or threat of great bodily injury. Explores PTSD in detail. ak

This book was recommended to me by an active member of a Special Forces unit. He felt that as a civilian chaplain to the military the insight the book gives to the reader would be helpful. It was.
The findings of the author are backed up by the experiences of many combat veterans who have shared their stories with me.

Very informative but I feel that the author was repetitive in some topics. Overall a good and informative book. Chapter 7 Killing and Sexual Range: The Primal Aggression and Release, and Orgasmic Discharge was a surprise to me and is in my opinion pure 100% Bull....

I have a different thesis.

Soldiers waste tons of ammunition because theyre incompetent marksmen. The weapon is dirty, un-calibrated, and the shooter is excited, inexperienced in combat, undisciplined, and poorly led.

SLA Marshall stumbled upon a standard that is true for any organization: 15%-20% of the members do all the heavy lifting. Every organization is filled with slackers and morons and malingeroids.

The US military should do what other nations do: Put the dweebs on point to absorb bullets, flush the game, and clear the path of mines. There is no reason a real warrior should ever be on point.

This book covers the psychology of the human tendancy to kill and our lack there of. It explains, amung other things, just what it takes to take an average human being and get them to kill and the psychological consiquences. For those that have veterans in their family this book gives the average layperson insight into the mind of someone who has had to take life, whether for a benevolent purpose or not. It covers the effect of the media and fear on the civilian population and just what effect that has on the population. This is really a great book wiht a no nonsence approch to a very touchy subject. Even if you have no interest in the subject this book is very informative and gives you a deep understanding of yourself and those that have to do the dirty work in war.

If you live or work in an environment that presents life and death scenarios to you on a regular basis, you should read this book. If you have loved ones who are military combatants or police officers, you should read this book. A very helpful guide to understanding why one reacts to critical situations and what consequences to expect afterwards. The media does an excellent job of making our heros out to be sadistic insane killers when faced with no other options. The media simply does not know what we as warriors go through or how we are faced with dealing with these circumstances once its over. "On Combat" is another great book written by Grossman.

I liked the book, although very far out from what I usually read, I found it to be thought provoking. There is a lot of interesting info that I had previously not given much consideration to. I don't usually think about the psychology of killing and military history , but found it to be fascinating. As always...Amazon was amazing.

This book is not just a good read, it is vital for any truly serious police officer, military personel, (of any class or job description,) or martial artist. My martial arts instructor has made this book manditory reading for all black belt canidates.

jon

A cop friend recently recommended I read this book, and I'm really glad he did. In addition to describing how men (and women!) are affected by war, especially those who served in Vietnam, the author does a great job explaining why violence has increased in our society. Everyone who cares about our youth and our country should read this book - perhaps if enough people did, something could be done about the problem!

Grossman does an absolutely phenomenal job investigating what it takes for the normally peaceful man to kill.

Examining round to kill ratios of wars back to The War of Northern Aggression, to examining studies of firing ratios, Grossman posits what the psychological cost is from different ranges of combat.

Mind you, although you may wonder at the start, this is no dope smoking, hippy, anti-war filled tripe. Grossman is a soldier and fully recognizes the necessity of killing under the right circumstances.

This book was a recommended read by a family member to help understand the impact of war on the brave men and women that serve our country. I really enjoyed reading it and could not help to think of my Grandfather during many of the chronicles. If you want to understand your loved one better after returning from war, read this book. I am thankful I did.

Col. Grossman had to have known when he wrote this book that noted military historian S. L. A. Marshall's "research" on firing rates among U. S. infantrymen (15-20%) during World War II were far more than the subject of "considerable controversy" (p. 333), they were, according to Roger J. Spiller writing in the Winter 1988 issue of the RUSI Journal, "an invention." Spiller and Fred Smoler writing in "American Heritage" magazine in March 1989, proved conclusively that Marshall's so-called research during the Second World War was bogus. Nevertheless, Grossman constantly refers to Marshall's cooked "statistics" as proof of his thesis that men at war are reluctant to shoot at the enemy. This "fact," which army trainers swallowed whole (but the army's official history of WWII did not), supposedly had a profound effect on the U. S. Army's training doctrine which "increased" firing rates to 55% during Korea and as much as 90% during Vietnam. It seems now those rates always were high, Marshall notwithstanding. Grossman thus appears guilty of either poor scholarship deliberately ignoring inconvenient facts. This calls into question the rest of Grossman's book. That may be an unfair assessment but for me it undermines everything else in this book.

Because most of the individuals who know me are aware that I love to read, they often recommend books that they think I would enjoy reading. Many of the books that I have reviewed in The White Rhino Report came to my attention through personal recommendations. "On Killing - The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society" by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is no different, except for the fact that at least a half dozen of my friends told me that I needed to read this book. The curious thing about their recommendations was that each individual expressed his feelings about this book in almost identical terms. Each of these warriors, knowing that they were speaking to someone who has not served in the military, used a phrase like: "If you want to understand . . . you need to read `On Killing'!"

They did not say, "If you want to understand me," or "If you want to understand war," or even "If you want to understand the heart of a warrior." They left the statement hanging: "If you want to understand . . ." That truncated expression served as an all-encompassing statement that includes all of the above - and so much more.

Having read, and been captivated by, this singular book, I feel that I have begun to understand in a new way. Grossman, a decorated former Army Ranger, paratrooper and member of the faculty at West Point, has placed on the table for discussion what I would call "The Warrior's Secret." The overarching impression that Grossman left me with is that each warrior who has faced combat secretly struggles for the rest of his life with one of three powerful sets of emotions:

1) If he has been called upon to kill in battle, he wrestles with a haunting guilt over having overcome the basic human instinct not to kill our own kind. That wrestling can often lead to severe PTSD.

2) If he was faced with an opportunity to kill an enemy combatant, but chose not to kill, or found himself incapable of killing, he suffers from the secret shame and humiliation of having failed to carry out that which he was trained to do - that which defines a true warrior.

3) If he served in the military in a role that was not combat arms, or if he never had an opportunity to engage an enemy, he wonders how he would have responded if faced with that life-or-death decision. And he secretly feels like he never truly became a warrior.

For much of history, the warrior code made if difficult, if not impossible, for an individual to speak honestly about these struggles. Our military has come a long way in the past several generations in terms of understanding these psychological and emotional dynamics of warfare, and in terms of giving permission for veterans and active duty military personnel to speak openly and honestly about these formerly taboo topics. Grossman has carved out a second career in publicly and privately offering this explicit permission to those who have served in combat and who wrestle with these persistent struggles.

As soon as I finished reading the book, I placed a call to my friend, Kevin. He was one of those who had told me to read the book. He is a veteran of two deployments to Iraq. I wanted to test out on Kevin the validity of what I describe above as "The Warrior's Secret." Kevin not only confirmed that I was on the right track and was beginning to "Get it," but he also added the following comments:

"Now you need to read Grossman's next book - `On Combat.' It is more comprehensive in scope than `On Killing.' In each unit I have served in, we made sure that there was a copy of each of these books available to us to help us survive. They function as a sort of a psychological survival manual."


(Based on Kevin's recommendation, I immediately ordered "On Combat." I plan to review that book within the next few days. Stay tuned!)

To give you a direct sense of how insightful and revolutionary Grossman's writing is, I will share with you several excerpts. Grossman lays on the table the idea that historically in combat, many warriors have shied away from making a kill when they were given an opportunity to do so.


"The simple fact appears to be that, like S.L.A. Marshall's riflemen of World War II, the vast majority of rifle- and musket-armed soldiers of previous wars were consistent and persistent in their psychological inability to kill their fellow human beings. Their weapons were technologically capable , and they were physically quite able to kill, but at the decisive moment each man became, in his heart, a conscientious objector who could not bring himself to kill the man standing before him" (Page 27)

"There is ample indication of the existence of the resistance to killing and that it appears to have existed at least since the black powder era. This lack of enthusiasm for killing the enemy causes many soldiers to posture, submit, or flee, rather than fight; it represents a powerful psychological force on the battlefield; and it is a force that is discernible throughout the history of man. The application and understanding of this force can lend new insight to military history, the nature of war, and the nature of man." (Page 28)

"That the average man will not kill even at the risk of all he holds dear has been largely ignored by those who attempt to understand the psychological and sociological pressures of the battlefield. Looking another human being in the eye, making an independent decision to kill him, and watching as he dies due to your action combine to form the single most basic, important, primal and potentially traumatic occurrence of war. If we understand this, then we understand the magnitude of the horror of killing in combat. . . Why is this not often discussed? If Johnny can't kill, if the average soldier will not kill unless coerced and conditioned and provided with mechanical and mental leverage, then why has it not been understood before?" (Pages 30-31)

Grossman makes a compelling case that the poor rate at which soldiers in World Wars I and II fired their weapons when called upon to do so led to a revolution in the way in which subsequent generations of soldiers were trained - using operant conditioning techniques introduced by Skinner. As a consequence, firing rates in Korea climbed, and soared even higher in Vietnam. The result was an alarming increase in the incidence of PTSD among returning soldiers and Marines. Grossman argues that we learned to do a better job of turning men into killing machines, but we did not learn how to help them cope with the aftermath of what we had trained them to do.

"In both the Berkun and Shalit studies we see indications that fear of death and injury is not the primary cause of psychiatric casualties on the battlefield. Indeed, Shalit found that even in the face of a society and culture that tells soldiers that selfish fear of death and injury should be their primary concern, it is instead the fear of not being able to meet the terrible obligations of combat that weighs most heavily on the minds of combat soldiers. . . Research in this field has been that of blind men groping at the elephant - one grasps what he thinks is a tree, another finds a wall, and still another discovers a snake. All have a piece of the puzzle, but none is completely correct." (Page 53)

Grossman offers a fascinating look into the theory and practice of inoculating recruits and military cadets against hatred and other psychological factors.

"Combining an understanding of (a) those factors that cause combat trauma with (b) an understanding of the inoculation process permits us to understand that in most of these military schools the inoculation is specifically oriented toward hate.

The drill sergeant who screams into the face of a recruit is manifesting overt interpersonal hostility. Another effective means of inoculating a trainee against the Wind of Hate can be seen in U.S. Army and USMC pugil-stick training during boot camp or at the U.S. Military Academy and the British Airborne Brigade, where boxing matches are a traditional part of the training and initiation process. When in the face of all of this manufactured contempt and overt physical hostility the recruit overcomes the situation to graduate with honor and pride, he realizes at both a conscious and unconscious levels that he can overcome such overt interpersonal hostility. He has become partially inoculated against hate." (Page 82)

In the chapter entitled "The Burden of Killing," Grossman articulates what I see as his primary premise - and thereby offers his primary gift to the warrior community: opening up for discussion - both public and private - the secret burden that each warrior carries within his heart.

"The soldier in combat is trapped within this tragic Catch-22. If he overcomes his resistance to killing and kills an enemy soldier in close combat, he will forever be burdened with blood guilt, and if he elects not to kill, then the blood guilt of his fallen comrades and the shame of his profession, nation, and cause lie upon him. He is damned if he does, and damned it he doesn't." (Page 87)

The feedback I received from my friend, Kevin, reinforced my sense that Grossman's pioneering work has been enormously helpful to those called to serve in fields of fire in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere where our troops are deployed. The book provided me with a glimpse into the mind and heart of those who have been faced with the decision to kill or not to kill - a level of understanding I may not have been able to attain in any other way. Kevin's comment about the book's effectiveness in combat speaks loudly as a recommendation for all warriors to add this book to their arsenal of tools and weapons.


Speaking as one who has not been in combat, but who numbers among my friends many warriors, I recommend this book to anyone who desires to understand and to engage in meaningful conversation those friends and family members who have been called upon to make the awful choice to take a human life. One of the ways that we can show our gratitude to the warriors who bear these burdens that are almost unthinkable is to take a step towards them and make the effort to understand.

"If you want to understand" . . . read this book!

Al

Because most of the individuals who know me are aware that I love to read, they often recommend books that they think I would enjoy reading. Many of the books that I have reviewed in The White Rhino Report came to my attention through personal recommendations. "On Killing - The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society" by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is no different, except for the fact that at least a half dozen of my friends told me that I needed to read this book. The curious thing about their recommendations was that each individual expressed his feelings about this book in almost identical terms. Each of these warriors, knowing that they were speaking to someone who has not served in the military, used a phrase like: "If you want to understand . . . you need to read `On Killing'!"

They did not say, "If you want to understand me," or "If you want to understand war," or even "If you want to understand the heart of a warrior." They left the statement hanging: "If you want to understand . . ." That truncated expression served as an all-encompassing statement that includes all of the above - and so much more.

Having read, and been captivated by, this singular book, I feel that I have begun to understand in a new way. Grossman, a decorated former Army Ranger, paratrooper and member of the faculty at West Point, has placed on the table for discussion what I would call "The Warrior's Secret." The overarching impression that Grossman left me with is that each warrior who has faced combat secretly struggles for the rest of his life with one of three powerful sets of emotions:

1) If he has been called upon to kill in battle, he wrestles with a haunting guilt over having overcome the basic human instinct not to kill our own kind. That wrestling can often lead to severe PTSD.

2) If he was faced with an opportunity to kill an enemy combatant, but chose not to kill, or found himself incapable of killing, he suffers from the secret shame and humiliation of having failed to carry out that which he was trained to do - that which defines a true warrior.

3) If he served in the military in a role that was not combat arms, or if he never had an opportunity to engage an enemy, he wonders how he would have responded if faced with that life-or-death decision. And he secretly feels like he never truly became a warrior.

For much of history, the warrior code made if difficult, if not impossible, for an individual to speak honestly about these struggles. Our military has come a long way in the past several generations in terms of understanding these psychological and emotional dynamics of warfare, and in terms of giving permission for veterans and active duty military personnel to speak openly and honestly about these formerly taboo topics. Grossman has carved out a second career in publicly and privately offering this explicit permission to those who have served in combat and who wrestle with these persistent struggles.

As soon as I finished reading the book, I placed a call to my friend, Kevin. He was one of those who had told me to read the book. He is a veteran of two deployments to Iraq. I wanted to test out on Kevin the validity of what I describe above as "The Warrior's Secret." Kevin not only confirmed that I was on the right track and was beginning to "Get it," but he also added the following comments:

"Now you need to read Grossman's next book - `On Combat.' It is more comprehensive in scope than `On Killing.' In each unit I have served in, we made sure that there was a copy of each of these books available to us to help us survive. They function as a sort of a psychological survival manual."


(Based on Kevin's recommendation, I immediately ordered "On Combat." I plan to review that book within the next few days. Stay tuned!)

To give you a direct sense of how insightful and revolutionary Grossman's writing is, I will share with you several excerpts. Grossman lays on the table the idea that historically in combat, many warriors have shied away from making a kill when they were given an opportunity to do so.


"The simple fact appears to be that, like S.L.A. Marshall's riflemen of World War II, the vast majority of rifle- and musket-armed soldiers of previous wars were consistent and persistent in their psychological inability to kill their fellow human beings. Their weapons were technologically capable , and they were physically quite able to kill, but at the decisive moment each man became, in his heart, a conscientious objector who could not bring himself to kill the man standing before him" (Page 27)

"There is ample indication of the existence of the resistance to killing and that it appears to have existed at least since the black powder era. This lack of enthusiasm for killing the enemy causes many soldiers to posture, submit, or flee, rather than fight; it represents a powerful psychological force on the battlefield; and it is a force that is discernible throughout the history of man. The application and understanding of this force can lend new insight to military history, the nature of war, and the nature of man." (Page 28)

"That the average man will not kill even at the risk of all he holds dear has been largely ignored by those who attempt to understand the psychological and sociological pressures of the battlefield. Looking another human being in the eye, making an independent decision to kill him, and watching as he dies due to your action combine to form the single most basic, important, primal and potentially traumatic occurrence of war. If we understand this, then we understand the magnitude of the horror of killing in combat. . . Why is this not often discussed? If Johnny can't kill, if the average soldier will not kill unless coerced and conditioned and provided with mechanical and mental leverage, then why has it not been understood before?" (Pages 30-31)

Grossman makes a compelling case that the poor rate at which soldiers in World Wars I and II fired their weapons when called upon to do so led to a revolution in the way in which subsequent generations of soldiers were trained - using operant conditioning techniques introduced by Skinner. As a consequence, firing rates in Korea climbed, and soared even higher in Vietnam. The result was an alarming increase in the incidence of PTSD among returning soldiers and Marines. Grossman argues that we learned to do a better job of turning men into killing machines, but we did not learn how to help them cope with the aftermath of what we had trained them to do.

"In both the Berkun and Shalit studies we see indications that fear of death and injury is not the primary cause of psychiatric casualties on the battlefield. Indeed, Shalit found that even in the face of a society and culture that tells soldiers that selfish fear of death and injury should be their primary concern, it is instead the fear of not being able to meet the terrible obligations of combat that weighs most heavily on the minds of combat soldiers. . . Research in this field has been that of blind men groping at the elephant - one grasps what he thinks is a tree, another finds a wall, and still another discovers a snake. All have a piece of the puzzle, but none is completely correct." (Page 53)

Grossman offers a fascinating look into the theory and practice of inoculating recruits and military cadets against hatred and other psychological factors.

"Combining an understanding of (a) those factors that cause combat trauma with (b) an understanding of the inoculation process permits us to understand that in most of these military schools the inoculation is specifically oriented toward hate.

The drill sergeant who screams into the face of a recruit is manifesting overt interpersonal hostility. Another effective means of inoculating a trainee against the Wind of Hate can be seen in U.S. Army and USMC pugil-stick training during boot camp or at the U.S. Military Academy and the British Airborne Brigade, where boxing matches are a traditional part of the training and initiation process. When in the face of all of this manufactured contempt and overt physical hostility the recruit overcomes the situation to graduate with honor and pride, he realizes at both a conscious and unconscious levels that he can overcome such overt interpersonal hostility. He has become partially inoculated against hate." (Page 82)

In the chapter entitled "The Burden of Killing," Grossman articulates what I see as his primary premise - and thereby offers his primary gift to the warrior community: opening up for discussion - both public and private - the secret burden that each warrior carries within his heart.

"The soldier in combat is trapped within this tragic Catch-22. If he overcomes his resistance to killing and kills an enemy soldier in close combat, he will forever be burdened with blood guilt, and if he elects not to kill, then the blood guilt of his fallen comrades and the shame of his profession, nation, and cause lie upon him. He is damned if he does, and damned it he doesn't." (Page 87)

The feedback I received from my friend, Kevin, reinforced my sense that Grossman's pioneering work has been enormously helpful to those called to serve in fields of fire in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere where our troops are deployed. The book provided me with a glimpse into the mind and heart of those who have been faced with the decision to kill or not to kill - a level of understanding I may not have been able to attain in any other way. Kevin's comment about the book's effectiveness in combat speaks loudly as a recommendation for all warriors to add this book to their arsenal of tools and weapons.


Speaking as one who has not been in combat, but who numbers among my friends many warriors, I recommend this book to anyone who desires to understand and to engage in meaningful conversation those friends and family members who have been called upon to make the awful choice to take a human life. One of the ways that we can show our gratitude to the warriors who bear these burdens that are almost unthinkable is to take a step towards them and make the effort to understand.

"If you want to understand" . . . read this book!

Al

A must have for any library. This book is even more important now that all the iraq war vets are returning. even if you are a civilian you should read this book to better understand what they have gone through. No matter what any man says, taking another humans life, even when justified, still changes a person. This book atemps to explain what that change is and why it happens.

I read this book before I enlisted, years later as a highspeed soldiers hurring up to wait I was talking with my company commander and he told be that Lt. Grossman was an instructor for him during his advanced officer training. Later as we worked together to try and create a team to complete a mission that the U.S. military had absolutly no experience with we looked again to this book in trying to pick the best soldiers. Even today I still go back to this book for not only the army, but I use it in many of my college courses. A must have for any library.

I believe LtCol Grossman was right on the mark and the book was very well thought out and the content was accurately researched.
This book should be read by all military and police. It gives a great insight into the repercussions of having to take someones life.
It also should be read by all of our elected officials so they can see what our society is turning into and why this is happening.

This book delves deeply into the psychology of combat and killing and shows the relevency of this information in our everyday lives. The most exhaustive source on this topic that I have found. Very interesting read. Loads of excellent facts and information. Anyone can benefit from reading this book! Excellent overall message. If you have children, this book is a must read! Highly recommended.

Col Grossman has amazing insight into these topics. I enjoyed his book immensely and have enjoyed his speaking engagements in the past.

Grossman's book is a straight-forward yet fascinating study of violence and the ways in which our military has been able to groom soldiers for combat. While the application of the information to modern American culture is somewhat less represented than the book cover would imply, the value of the lessons he imparts which relate to the military alone are worth the purchase price. Grossman has a scholar's approach to research, but presents the information in a relatively simple and cohesive way, making the material extremely accessible to the layperson. The format of the book, which is subdivided into numerous chapters, makes the information very digestible.

Simply stunning. I read it four times, no kidding. My copy is dog eared and falling apart. This book is a study of the soldier. The only book I learned more about myself with was the Bible.

Don't miss a chance to hear him lecture. Seriously. This is mandatory reading. Hell, I need to read it a fith time.

This book blew me away for being well written, entertaining, and covering a subject we just don't think about very often. The studies cited were eye-opening, such as the one stating how few soldiers actually shot their weapons in WWII. This is a must read if you or someone you know, is going in harm's way.

Wow.

Must read for any military, or for anyone who's taxes or votes effect our military.

I thought the most amazing figures were the firing rates from old wars. The concept that when it came time to pull the trigger, the vast majority of untrained people couldn't kill someone else. Very much goes against the male ego.

The psychological price of creating the human weapon is very high, and we have created very effective human weapons.

Well written book, unfortunately based on poor data and not consistent with may facts for rates of people firing in combat. Additionally, psychopathology (PTSD) dose not necessarily result from killing the enemy if you are not a psychopath. Again not consistent with the facts. He does try to address this failure in his next book. He does do a good job on the proximity and ease of killing part of his book. I'm glad that he has approached this important subject but am concerned that readers will not be as critical as they need to be and accept his conclusions, many of which are wrong.

Lt. Col. Grossman has written a book that is obviously well-researched and well-thought. His descriptions of the process of what happens in combat are detailed and descriptive without being unduly graphic. The same observation applies to his descriptions of the measures the military takes to deal with the process and results of combat, and the safeguards that the military takes around these measures. Further, his conclusions as to the problem of violence in society in which some of the same processes are evident, but without the same safeguards, are extremely thought-provoking. As I am not a miltary man, this book gave me a great deal to think about. I actually found it a very disturbing book to read, but I am certainly glad to have read it. I would highly recommend it to any thoughtful person, whether he or she has been in the military or not, but especially to civilians as a small glimpse into the world of those whom we ask to fight our wars. Those who will read this book will gain a much better understanding of what they are asking.

Lt. Col. Grossman has written a book that is obviously well-researched and well-thought. His descriptions of the process of what happens in combat are detailed and descriptive without being unduly graphic. The same observation applies to his descriptions of the measures the military takes to deal with the process and results of combat, and the safeguards that the military takes around these measures. Further, his conclusions as to the problem of violence in society in which some of the same processes are evident, but without the same safeguards, are extremely thought-provoking. As I am not a miltary man, this book gave me a great deal to think about. I actually found it a very disturbing book to read, but I am certainly glad to have read it. I would highly recommend it to any thoughtful person, whether he or she has been in the military or not, but especially to civilians as a small glimpse into the world of those whom we ask to fight our wars. Those who will read this book will gain a much better understanding of what they are asking.

Grossman has done extensive research for "On Killing" using both the work of other students of warfare and his own detailed interviewing. He has put together a highly readable text. His examples and quotes are profound, but the work's greatest aspect is the order in which he lays out his argument that man - at least 98% of us - won't easily kill another man, even when threatened.

Since reading this book, I have talked with military men and police officers who all agree with Grossman's premise. One former Marine sniper had read all of Grossman's books in an attempt to deal with his own issues of the work he had done. He found them to be of great value.

I find "On Killing" to be thoroughly fascinating.

I finished it in one breath. Well documented and thorougly study of post traumatic stress disorder. Focuses mainly on the effects of military training and combat experience on a individual. Also gives useful ideas how to minimise the risk of psychological damage(after and during confict) on combat vets.

I originally read this, as an ex-girlfriend was approaching deployment to Iraq, and she wanted me to know what she and her friends had to go through, and why they had to go through such things.

The thesis has been explained in the various editorial reviews: basically, most research indicates that the majority of humans have a hard time with killing others, even in the context of warfare. I only dock the book one star because some of this research is apparently still controversial, and the book doesn't address the controversy. Whether or not it is true in the statistical sense given in this book (and more importantly, whether or not these things are true in larger society, outside life in the military), this is an important thing to take into consideration when sending men into battle. How do most people respond? How do they deal with it afterwords? Does it matter if they killed at short range or long?

If you know a veteran or soldier, you should probably read this book. If you are a soldier or veteran and the army hasn't assigned it already, you probably should read this.

This is a fascinating book. I highly recommend it. The author puts forth the theory that humans have a powerful internal resistance to killing their fellow humans. He details how the military uses conditioning to overcome this innate resistance, and the psychological cost of doing so. He then extrapolates to contend that the entertainment industry is using nearly these same techniques on our youth, without the discpline and control the military also instills.

However, it should be pointed out that there is a good deal of controversy surrounding the oft-cited findings of SLA Marshall and his 20% firing rate. A Google search for SLA Marshall will turn up some interesting reading.

I do believe that there is some truth to Marhsall's findings, and this book makes the case for the 20% firing rate using examples outside of Marshall's studies.

It should also be pointed out that since this book came out, the murder rate per 100,000 people in the US down 35%. The aggravated assault rate is 85% of what it was then. I would suggest that entertainment has become more violent, and videogames more realistic in their depictions of killing in that time same period, so if his theory is valid, an increase would be expected? Perhaps we've just thrown so many people in prison that the rate has to go down?

Regardless, there is much more to this book than these two elements. It is very well written, and reads quickly. Three stars.

You will either kill them or become a video on arabic television! Hows that for modern desensitization?

As a police officer we spend many hours in various forms of training. Some of this training is dedicated to the rules surrounding the use of our department issued firearms. Some of this training is dedicated to the physical skill of firing this weapon. None of the training is dedicated to what you go through after having actualy used this weapon against another human being in self defense. The extent of my departments response was...absolutely no critical incident debriefing and my appointment with the department phycologist occured 9 days after the shooting. The evaluation by the physcologist last 23 minutes total. At that point I knew that my well being was up to me to provide for. After some research I located this series of books by Dave Grossman. Purchasing these books was the best thing I could have done for myself. The information within these pages helped me understand all the stages of emotion that I was, and still am, going through. I would recommend these books to anyone in the military or in lawenforcement (or any family memeber there-of). They may very well have saved my sanity.

Good Transaction, Thank you.

Typical Dave Grossman:
exhaustive research backed by anecdotal interviews to illustrate his points.
Should be mandatory reading for LE training officers.

Judd Dulick
Dekalb County State Court Probation Department

I read this when it came out and again recently. It is not an easy read but the author has obviously done his homework on the subject of killing from a military point of view. Having been a Marine sniper for two years in Vietnam I was interested in his research and findings and found them fascinating. With the young men and now women returning from Iraq this is a tough but necessary read for loved ones. The author details various aspects of the impact of doing this work and this is a good work.

I have only read half of this book and it is excellent. A must read for anyone in the military or law enforcement fields.

As I wasn't familiar with Gen. S.L.A. Marshall's study previously, Grossman's presentation of low firing rates prior to the Korean conflict was new and intriguing to me.

I thought the outline of common combat responses (fight, flight, posture, submit) and study of military conditioning to increase soldiers' lethality were well presented.

Although I don't completely agree that media violence is to blame for rise in violent crime, it's a valid thesis that merits investigation. I found this book to be prescient, as it predated the events at Columbine (my own thoughts are that sociopaths are sociopaths regardless of movie and video game influence).

I recommend it for academic study as well as to those in military and law enforcement professions who would benefit from understanding their conditioning and their own probable reactions to or anxieties about combat.

Grossman does an outstanding job of explaining the cost of learning to kill, and killing itself, on individuals and society as a whole.

This is a subject that is rarely discussed, especially among those who have first hand knowledge. It is refreshing to see an open examination of the topic.

This book, contrary to my expectations, left me with a great deal of hope for mankind. We are not at all like the image portrayed by Hollywood or the media.

For the reviewer who remains skeptical about the "spitting" stories and appears to be insulted by Grossman's condemnation of the anti-war protesters during Vietnam...you are wrong. Although I did not serve in Vietnam, my father spent three tours there and I grew up on military bases throughout the U.S. During the late 60's and early 70's my school bus (U.S. Army on the side) would get pelted with eggs on our way out the gate enroute to field trips and kids in the civilian community would taunt us with "your father is a murderer". Based on my own experiences, I can only imagine what it was like for my father and his cohorts when walking through the airports and community in their uniforms. We treated the Vietnam veterans horribly and I hope we don't make the same mistake with those brave souls returning from Iraq.

The last section on the effect of video and TV on our youth is more plausible to me than any other explanation I have heard. While most politicians today will rant and rave about the availability of firearms as a direct cause of violence, Grossman points to what we are putting into the minds of our youth. After all, it wasn't too long ago when the typical High School (at least in Texas) had an arsenal of deer rifles and shotguns in the gun racks of pickup trucks sitting outside the classrooms and for some reason there didn't seem to be mass school shootings. There has to be some other explanation, and the TV/Video/PC influence appears to be the only thing that parallels the dramatic rise in violent crime.

I am sure there will be more said on this subject, but this is a great start. Well worth the purchase price and your time to read.

Grossman does an outstanding job of explaining the cost of learning to kill, and killing itself, on individuals and society as a whole.

This is a subject that is rarely discussed, especially among those who have first hand knowledge. It is refreshing to see an open examination of the topic.

This book, contrary to my expectations, left me with a great deal of hope for mankind. We are not at all like the image portrayed by Hollywood or the media.

For the reviewer who remains skeptical about the "spitting" stories and appears to be insulted by Grossman's condemnation of the anti-war protesters during Vietnam...you are wrong. Although I did not serve in Vietnam, my father spent three tours there and I grew up on military bases throughout the U.S. During the late 60's and early 70's it was tough to be the son of a soldier in Vietnam. My school bus (U.S. Army on the side) would get pelted with eggs on our way out the gate enroute to field trips and kids in the civilian community would taunt us with "your father is a murderer". Based on my own experiences, I can only imagine what it was like for my father and his cohorts when walking through the airports and community in their uniforms. We treated the Vietnam veterans horribly and I hope we don't make the same mistake with those brave souls returning from Iraq.

The last section on the effect of video and TV on our youth is more plausible to me than any other explanation I have heard. While most politicians today will rant and rave about the availability of firearms as a direct cause of violence, Grossman points to what we are putting into the minds of our youth. After all, it wasn't too long ago when the typical High School (at least in Texas) had an arsenal of deer rifles and shotguns in the gun racks of pickup trucks sitting outside the classrooms and for some reason there didn't seem to be mass school shootings. There has to be some other explanation, and the TV/Video/PC influence appears to be the only thing that parallels the dramatic rise in violent crime.

I am sure there will be more said on this subject, but this is a great start. Well worth the purchase price and your time to read.

This was a fascinating read. For years I could not understand the dark feelings I've had about my time in the service (Vietnam era). I had always presumed it was about my disillusionment from the politics of the time and our loosing the war (as in not trying to win it :(. That perhaps had a little to do with it. There was the rejection and all those brave vets our nation treated so poorly and more I do not yet care to talk about. I always wondered why a part of me hoped I would run into one of those protesters again so that I could... I feel some closure now having understood what has happened and the reasons for my feelings. Anyway the book was good until the very end. As I have experienced more from life I no longer trust my life or anything else to the government. The only digression the book takes is the authors conclusion "that the more we disarm ourselves the safer we as a society will become". Scientific studies have refuted this idea quite well. Notice a nerve hit? Many of the root causes for the violence our society faces are very adequately handled. Other than the one faux pas I would fully endorse the book.